Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: You're listening to part four of our miniseries on writing copy for your website. So this is Ella at Cracking Copy and in this episode I interview a health and fitness copywriter who really takes me on a journey through the process of writing her website copy and how she optimized that and got it ready for publishing. So the writing component is one part, but the editing component is another and the two I think should be treated separately for best effects. We go through seven copy checkpoints as part of that editing process to really get your copy in top notch shape so that you can hit publish. Hope you enjoy this episode.
[00:00:49] Speaker B: Cracking Copy is a marketing and copywriting podcast where we lift the lid on writing for business and read between the lines of effective copy.
[00:00:59] Speaker A: This is a podcast for creative entrepreneurs and savvy business owners like you who understand the value that great copy can bring to their bottom line.
[00:01:07] Speaker B: We dive into a different aspect of writing for business in each episode. Debunk the myths about how we should write and explore the ways that writing can be fun, conversational and creative while also being high impact for serious results.
[00:01:24] Speaker A: So listen, laugh and learn with us, Ella Hoyas and Minnie McBride as we share our words and wisdom in each snack sized episode. Expect some light bulb moments, interesting guests, and practical takeaways as we crack the copy code together.
[00:01:45] Speaker C: Welcome to Cracking Copy. My name is Ella Hoyos and my guest today is Linda Malone. Linda is a certified conversion copywriter like myself, but she is an award winning writer and also a fitness expert who specializes in creating impactful revenue generating copy for the health, wellness and fitness industries. So she understands the nuances of the industry firsthand. The language, the vibe, the challenges. All things to do with health and fitness.
And today we're talking about the optimal health of your copy. So how to get your copy in tip top shape before publishing or before sending the final draft to the client.
This is kind of like the post editing phase of copywriting. You may have already written the copy.
[00:02:33] Speaker A: You may have already had a go.
[00:02:34] Speaker C: At editing it, but this is. Linda's going to explain to us a real way of fine tuning that editing process.
It's kind of optimizing. Would you agree?
[00:02:45] Speaker D: Yes, absolutely. Yeah.
[00:02:48] Speaker C: So welcome Linda. Anyway, do tell us a bit about yourself in your words.
[00:02:53] Speaker D: Yeah, thanks for having me on. I'm looking forward to this conversation. Yeah, I'm.
I was, I've been a writer my whole life. I'm one of those people that even as a kid I would write little stories and stuff and long story short, as I was a Personal trainer for many years. And I was working out with people in their homes, and I was getting this free magazine that was sent to my house, and it was a local. It was in Orange County, California. So it was called OC Metro, a local publication that was free. And they had a column, a fitness column. And I saw it and I thought, you know, I could write this. And so I sent the editor pitch, said, how about an article about how to set up your home gym? Because I was working in people's homes, and a lot of times they had questions for me. And he said, sure, go for it. So I wrote the column, and it was like, you know, how much space do you need for a treadmill and how do you arrange it and all that? And he loved it. And he called me and said, do you want to do more writing for us? And so that was the beginning of a long relationship with this editor, where I ended up writing cover stories. And, I mean, there were times where I had three and four articles in that magazine, and he loved what I did. And so I thought, you know what? I could probably go for nationals. And so I started pitching the big publications, the glossy magazines now with a focus on fitness, because that was obviously my background. I was a personal trainer. And so gradually, what happened is I was getting a lot more assignments with the big magazines, and I just. As I was losing personal training clients, they would drop off here and there, and usually I'd go and. And. And get new. New clients. I thought, you know what? I really want to get completely into the writing world. So as the clients dropped off, I just started doing more writing. And I ended up with bylines pretty much in every magazine. This is over the process of years, because the thing is, editors, when they move around, they will take the writers with them. You know, there. There was one magazine, it was online. It was called I Village. It was for women.
[00:04:48] Speaker C: I remember that I used to read articles from that back in the.
[00:04:53] Speaker D: Yeah, it was a while ago. And so that editor went on to write for it. She didn't write. She worked on the Today show, which is a huge show out here, morning show, and it was in New York City. And so I ended up ghostwriting for one of the fitness experts on the show, who's no longer there.
And so that's what really showed me the impact of, like, writing. And because people thought she was writing it, and they. I'd get all, you know, she would get all this. These kudos. And I was like, it just shows you what a name does. And then I. I ended up having an online fitness course for women over 50, and I just, I didn't have the business sense. Like, I. I did a lot of things wrong. I wasn't making money on it. And I said, you know what? It's so hard. I'm spending so much money on software and all these programs. I'm just going to go back to writing. But I didn't want to do content because I pretty much done everything I wanted to do. I've been in every magazine. And so I thought, let me do copywriting, thinking it would be an easy transition. I had no idea because most people don't know the difference between content and copy. Right. So, yeah. So I ran into one of the marketing people from Bowflex at a fitness conference and I end up talking to him and he said, I'd love to have you. Actually, he said to me, goes, it's so funny to meet a writer who's not crazy. I don't know what exactly he.
But he said, you seem so down to earth and so real, and I'd love to have you maybe, you know, write for us. So I was writing copy for them, not really knowing what I was doing. Fortunately, it was in the voice that they wanted and they loved it. And so I wrote to them for a while, ended up being a co host of a. The. It was called the Bowflex Burn. It was a. Was a radio show for a year and. Yeah. And that's how I just started getting into the copywriting and the rest is history.
[00:06:47] Speaker C: Yeah. That's fascinating. That's a really nice backstory. Thanks for talking about it. It's interesting because my former life before children, I was thinking things are before children and after children. But I used to be a newspaper editor and a trade magazine editor. And I quickly learned when I moved into copywriting how different it is writing a magazine article or a newspaper article and a story to actually writing copy that converts and sells. So it was back to school for me at that point as I upskilled and learned new skills of copywriting.
[00:07:21] Speaker D: Yeah, it's a whole different thing. And I made some. I. I messed up some things. I just remember I didn't know what I was doing, you know, and that's why I started taking courses and studying with coaches. But it takes time to learn it.
[00:07:33] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. To figure it out and to get good at the craft. Let's talk today then about fine tuning copy. Now, just before we get into that on your website about page. Going to talk about your website today, but I read that most freelance fitness copywriters will rely on cliched gym metaphors. And that brought a wry smile to my face because, frankly, I had to check myself when I was dreaming up titles and episode ideas for this show that we're recording now, because I was thinking we could have some fun with the theme and, you know, something along the lines of how to get your headlines in shape with health and fitness copywriter Linda, or beat the bulge of boring blog posts and other ways to get your copy fighting fit. So I'm just full of the cliches, just kept tumbling out. But you hear this a lot, right, from other people in your. In your niche who perhaps aren't as skilled and haven't got that writing experience that you have. But my first question to you then is, what impact does using cliched industry terms have on audiences and readers?
[00:08:41] Speaker D: There's a couple of things I do have to credit. Justin Blackmun. I don't know if you've heard of him. He's the one who helped me because he's like a copywriter's copywriter, and he and I work together on a couple of things. And it wasn't like I wrote my whole website myself, but that. That particular line, we were talking about something and I said, I'm redoing my whole website. I came up with something that was sort of like one of the titles you just said. He goes, no, you're not doing that. He just said, that's not what you're doing. He says, other people will do that and other copywriters will do that, but you're not doing that. And so he said, it's just there. It's predictable and kind of tired. And people expect that. They've heard these things a million times.
I think back to, like, my content magazine writing days where everything was like, walk off the weight and, you know, get rid of belly fat. I mean, there was a million things that was always around those subjects. It lacks a bit of originality, which I, you know, I don't 100% agree with him because, you know, the ones that, like you, you said about trim the flap from your writing. I mean, I think it can be fun. So I'm not 100% on board with it, but it can. You just have to make sure it doesn't sound gimmicky because you can lose your audience, like, if they don't feel like it applies to them.
[00:09:56] Speaker C: I think it does add to just lightening up. Some of these things are just ways to lighten up the Copy and add a bit of humor. But yeah, I think it's when you overuse cliched terms then it becomes we've heard it before. I guess the readers would switch off necessarily if they feel like they've heard this sort of language before.
[00:10:13] Speaker D: I think that's the biggest danger. It's just, you know, with, it's like with AI with you know, AI can only pull from what's already out there. So if it's been said a million times, it's going to show up somewhere and you don't want people reading it saying oh, but I mean I, I think you can come up with something original.
[00:10:28] Speaker C: Yeah, we don't want to regurgitate the same copy all the time. We do to make a case for standing out, being unique, differentiating exactly ourselves. Yeah. So on today's show we're talking about giving your pre written copy of final health check before. Again cliches are coming. Health check health before it goes live.
So Linda, you have a great process for this. I think you call it the seven copy checkpoints.
[00:10:59] Speaker D: It's like a checklist. Literally. You can make it into a checklist of what once you write your copy? Actually I'm thinking about like when I would write content like articles, I would do the same, a similar thing, but with copy you're looking for something different than content. But it's ways to check yourself to make sure that what you're saying is clear. As clear as it can be. It's what you want to say, that it's, you know, that you have. It's readable, it's easy to read, it flows, it's optimized for voice and tone like you don't want to. Especially if you leave the copy and you go back to it and maybe you forget like you're kind of in that mindset and then now you're changing the voice. You don't even really realize you're doing it. So it's like fine tuning all of it and catching know little errors that you may have, may have missed. Like one of the things I had an editor once tell me this was for content, but it could also refer to copy. And I'd never heard this term before, but echo words when you repeat the same word in the next sentence, which is very, I don't know why we have a tendency to do that. Like I went through recent copy and it was like. And she had pointed out she was the editor of this big magazine is no longer around family circle. And she said you need to watch for Those echo words where you repeat the same word. Like, I was writing something earlier and I said the word find. Find this. And then. And I put it in the second sentence. I'm. Wait a minute. So I changed one word to discover, you know, so those sorts of things.
[00:12:27] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, Okay, I get it. I do actually subconsciously check when I reread something, check that I haven't done that. Sometimes it's about the rhythm and the pattern in the way we're talking. And sometimes there is power in repeating sentence after sentence, so it gives it some cadence and flow. But, yes, occasion. You know, those echo words, I can see how. I guess they're unnecessary. You know, sometimes you just need to trim them or revise them. There are other ways to express the same sentiment. So use.
[00:13:00] Speaker D: It's usually. Yeah, it's not intentional. And when you do it and then you read it out loud. Well, I catch it. When I read it out loud, I go, I just said that, Angel.
[00:13:09] Speaker C: Yes.
That has to be one of the key things, isn't it? To check in your own copy is just to read it out loud. Does it sound right when you actually speak it?
[00:13:19] Speaker D: I always feel weird, especially if I'm by myself. Like, my cats are looking at me like, she's lost it.
[00:13:28] Speaker C: Okay, okay. And why should we go through this process? You know, what are the benefits?
[00:13:35] Speaker D: Well, mainly for what I just said, it improves the flow, the readability, the clarity. Because it's all about clarity. You know, so many times you look at a site or you read copy, and you're like, I don't even know what they're talking about. I hear that from people all the time. You know, how clear is it?
And again, you know, to boost its conversion potential, is there something that you could. Maybe it's an emotional word you can add in there that would, you know, trigger people to take action that you didn't think about before.
My biggest thing, and I think it's probably with most copywriters, is to get specific, because it's real easy to just gloss over something and make it very general statement. But when you dig down into using actual analogies and, you know, that's what brings copy to life. And it's. Yeah, it's not easy to do all the time, but those sorts of things, you can just go in and edit in. As one coach said. Edit in the awesome. I think.
[00:14:30] Speaker C: Yes, yes. Edit in the awesome. And also, you know, paint a picture with words. If you can paint a picture in the reader's mind of what you're Trying to describe it's going to be so much more powerful because they. They'll create a mental image around it. So, yeah, editing for clarity. So the reader only needs to read it once and gets it straight away is. Is great, isn't it?
So do you have any examples of how you've used this process on your own copy or copy you've written for a client?
[00:15:04] Speaker D: My own website is where I've used it most recently, and it took a lot of work. And I was working with someone who thankfully was really pushing me to write the copy because it's so hard to write copy for yourself, isn't it? I mean, is it copyright true? And she was like, okay, I need copy for this page and copy. And I'm like, all right, I just have to get this done. So the most important thing for me, and I had said this to her, and you can see it's on my website, is I wanted to be fun because I'm. I'm kind of a fun person. I mean, I'm not outrageously fun. I'm an introvert. But I mean, I like to laugh and I have, you know, I think I have a good personality, and so I want that to shine in the copy. And so she did the design. If you look at it, just exclamation points on it, which I never would have thought to use, but it's. It's bright. It's like this little moving piece is not too much because I said I don't want a lot of moving things. But the homepage is health and wellness copyrighted for B2B fitness brands. So it really says, this is what it is. There's no doubt what I do. You don't have to ask any questions. And the subtitle is strong smart messaging for B2B fitness and health brands that open doors to more corporate partners, lands more customers, clients and users. Because I really wanted to hone in on the B2B. Yeah, I do. I could write for B2C, but I prefer B2B. So everything there tells you, you know, if you land on that page and you're not looking for what I do, I mean, you could still reach out. I have clients that are not in the health and wellness field, but it's. That's what I specialize in because of my background. I mean, yeah, back of my hand. And so it. It takes you through. Like, everything about it is to move you through to the next section. So it's. The clarity is a big part of it. The voice and tone is very Consistent. So it's really in my voice. Anything that wasn't. There were a couple times where the designer, like, I didn't get something, some copy to her quick enough, and she wrote something herself. And there are times I said, I need to change this, because I would never say that. Like, it has to be in my words. So that's the thing is you want to keep the same voice and tone through the whole thing. And then asking yourself, you know, there's that. Ask yourself, so what? You know, when you're going through it, a site or your copy, why does this matter to the person who's reading it? You know, so what? And really be hard on yourself with that.
[00:17:40] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:17:40] Speaker D: And that's. That's important. And showing the. I call it showing the receipts. It's like just, okay, so prove it. And you have testimonials. You can have case studies.
Those are all the things that really show that you are validating whatever claims. Especially like testimonials. People don't use them the way they should be used. Like, you know, they're kind of sprinkled throughout. And I probably can do a better job with mine because I haven't taken a hard look at that. But your testimonial should back up the copy that's pre. Right prior to that. So if you're talking about reinforce that.
[00:18:15] Speaker C: Message you've just put out there.
[00:18:17] Speaker D: Right, exactly. So that it would be somebody who, like, say, I've written for a lot of clients that say, you know, their customer support is above and beyond. They don't have, you know, AI answering phones and stuff. And so I'll have a testimonial below that where someone says, you know, they helped me within, you know, eight hours I had. It was on a weekend or whatever it was that backs up what they just said. Yeah, so that kind of thing.
[00:18:41] Speaker C: Yeah. And the so what to your point about, you know, so what does it so why should I care? I think that's what you want to answer that question for the reader to let them know why they should care. And that. That's what the so what question is about.
[00:18:55] Speaker D: Yeah, So I have a section that says, you know, when it comes to writing and talking about B2B health and fitness, it's not easy to find the right messaging. And so I know, you know, then I go into why, you know, how do you find a message that demonstrates the expertise of both tech and fitness? Those are the challenges. So I'm bringing that out. Like, this is why. That's the so what? Okay. So can I just write whatever I want? Well, not really. If you want, really want to target, you know, health and fitness, you have to know who you're talking to, what you're talking about. When I used to write content, I'd have people. In fact, even with copy, I've had people say, I'm more comfortable having you write this because I know you can kind of fill in the gaps. Like I'm, you know, like I once had an assignment writing for a computer magazine. It was a nightmare because this was years ago. I was just getting started. I was still writing content and it was awful. And I had everyone I interviewed, they were using acronyms and terminology that I didn't know. And before that, I was told, oh, as long as you do the research, you can write anything to a point. If it's technical like that, it was hard. I mean, they, they published it, but it was. The editor, I don't think was very happy with me. I never heard.
[00:20:07] Speaker C: Perhaps, perhaps you weren't very happy with it. Because the thing is, yes, you can write about subjects you're not familiar with, but there's so much more work and thinking and research you have to do before you can even get those words on the page, so.
[00:20:23] Speaker D: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
[00:20:25] Speaker C: A painful process. But if you, A specialist, if you know your niche, you know your area, then it just, yeah, you've got that body of knowledge, even if you don't think you have. You kind of like already, you know so much.
[00:20:37] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. It's easier to use analogies too. And, and the thing is, when you're talking to people who do know what, like that area, they can tell when you don't. And I've had people tell me that with fitness. Like, I know when I'm talking to a writer who doesn't know fitness because they ask different questions and it shows. So I was kind of embarrassed by that assignment. But, you know, you learn.
[00:20:59] Speaker C: Okay, so we've talked about clarity and having a really clear headline that says what you do and value proposition at the. On that homepage. Voice and tone. We've talked about the so what sweep and the prove it testimonials, but just coming back to voice and tone.
Did you have to do some work on your own brand voice because you're writing your own copy? I guess it's just what comes naturally. But when you're writing for a client, often we do quite a lot of research into clients and voice and tone before we can write effectively for them. But did you have to do any note taking? Almost on what is your voice? Because sometimes when it is subconscious, it's hard to quantify it.
[00:21:42] Speaker D: I just write conversationally, you know, and my writing on my site is very much me. It's just I'm sometimes a little snarky, but not too much. You have to be careful when you write. Like personality is one thing, but there are personalities that kind of really try to push a certain voice that don't sound like the person. And it's so hard. I mean, that. That's why actually I spoke to Justin about voice and tone. He has a whole program about that. I didn't want to go that deep into it, you know, for myself. It's just, this is who I am. And I knew, you know, I've written blogs, I've written for so many years that people who would want to hire me would be fine with the way I wrote. I mean, that's how I look at it. I'm not going to be all stuffy. And so.
[00:22:29] Speaker C: Yeah. And also when answering that question about, you know, so what? Why do I. Why should I care? How much researched work or voice of customer work did you need to do with your audience, or do you know them pretty intimately at this point point I did ask.
[00:22:44] Speaker D: I could see who, you know, who signs up for my newsletter. I talk to people on LinkedIn. I'm very active on LinkedIn. And so that's how I know that it's a lot of copywriters and people who write to me from my newsletter who leave comments. It's a mix, but mainly it seems to be other copywriters, you know, that are always looking for, you know, something new or something they haven't heard of kind of thing. Yeah.
[00:23:08] Speaker C: Funny who we attract people like us sometimes.
All right, so are there any other checks that we haven't covered yet?
[00:23:17] Speaker D: The emotional aspect of it, giving, making. Sure. Because we make decisions based on emotion, we think that we're being logical and we. Science proves it. We make decisions based on emotion. I think people get kind of turned off by that because they see emotions as emotional. It doesn't mean you get emotional reading it all, though that could happen in some cases, but it just, it's. It triggers something in. In you that makes you want to take action. So to go through your copy and see where you can add something that will trigger emotion in.
In a person. Like, I mean, it could even be something like a, you know, a particular testimonial from a person.
[00:24:02] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:24:02] Speaker D: Because a lot of times those are. Those are emotional.
[00:24:05] Speaker C: The way I view Emotion and copywriting and getting in is just asking yourself before you sit down to write a piece, how do you want the reader to feel on reading this? And it's conveying that, isn't it? Through your copy. So that you want the reader to feel a certain way. You want them to feel excited, energized, you know, whatever that is in order to them to take the action that you want them to take and move closer to that conversion.
[00:24:32] Speaker D: That makes sense. Yeah.
[00:24:34] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:24:34] Speaker D: And that's, and that's also when you talk about voice and tone that contributes to that. Like just the, like I said with my site, it pretty much says what you're going to get. But also making it risk free is another one where if they're signing up for something like the one thing that will get me all the time that I will sometimes not do if I'm trying new type of software is if it says no credit card necessary. Because if they want to take my credit card and it's a seven day free trial, a lot of times I will still do it, but I'll put it in my calendar like to check myself because otherwise you end up with like a million subscriptions.
[00:25:11] Speaker C: We've all done it.
[00:25:13] Speaker D: No credit card means it's risk free. It's like, okay, I'll do this.
[00:25:16] Speaker C: So removing the friction from.
[00:25:18] Speaker D: Right.
[00:25:19] Speaker C: The action you want people to take as well. A lot of SaaS companies do that, don't they? Software as a service. Have you got examples on your website where you've, you've done that?
[00:25:27] Speaker D: I have a number of resources that are free. I have three, like power words, 21 words and phrases never to use in your copy, which is really just marketing speak and how to add humor to your copy. So those are all free. There is a sign up. So you get on my newsletter, you know, you can obviously unsubscribe, but hopefully, you know, I provide enough value that you know, you don't. I, you know, I do a lot of custom work. So I'm actually working on a couple of things right now that are smaller. There's no risk for any of that. I started, I just revived my blog for SEO reasons.
[00:26:04] Speaker C: Another very important thing to go along with the website to get traffic to and from your site.
[00:26:09] Speaker D: Yeah. So that's, and that's when I realized how far away I had gotten from content writing. Because to switch over to that writing because that's considered content. Yeah, it's hard. I'm like, I don't even know how to get started. And I used to do this like all the time.
[00:26:22] Speaker C: Yeah. The way I define content, it's. It's the value added, the educational pieces, the information you're giving out. Whereas copywriting is more writing with the intention of selling. I don't know if you'd agree with that.
[00:26:37] Speaker D: Yeah, I do. It's the intention of having somebody take action. So I always tell, you know, I think about it like when I'm writing copy, I think of the end in mind. What's the end result that I need to get from this copy where content, I mean, it used to be easier for me. Now it's not so much. But I would usually start with a story. If it's like a heart health article, you know, there's a story about someone who had a heart attack and it kind of pulls them in and then you can weave in all the other information, but it usually isn't asking. There's no call to action. Yeah.
[00:27:10] Speaker C: It's more of a passive experience. The reader reads the story, hopefully it's memorable and they like it and they want to read more. But you're not asking them to do anything specifically at the end of.
[00:27:21] Speaker D: Right.
[00:27:22] Speaker C: Okay. All right, so let's just recap again. So we've had. We've talked about clarity. We've talked about sweeping the copy and checking the copy for voice and tone and making sure that that sounds consistent throughout. Throughout your whole website.
So what? Why should the reader care about what they're reading and prove it? The testimonial side of things, getting specific. In our language, we talked about adding the emotion and how we want the reader to feel and removing any risks or friction. If you like the reason why people would not take that action. Making it easy for people to get your free resources.
[00:28:06] Speaker D: I like the word friction free versus risk free. Because friction could be just sometimes you get on a site and it's just really hard to maneuver to go through user experience. Be smooth too. So I think been on sites where you can't even get anywhere because you don't know where everything's leading.
[00:28:25] Speaker C: Yes. If there isn't a good navigation and you can be jumping around or not, you just bounce off because you can't find what you need from it easily enough. So.
[00:28:34] Speaker D: Right.
[00:28:34] Speaker C: Yeah. I guess that's about structure, isn't it? And as a copywriters, we think a lot long and hard about how we structure our messaging hierarchy of messaging. What's the most important thing that people need to hear first and in what order and how people flow through on a website. It'd be flowing from page to page or section to section. So you take your website visitor on a journey through your website and for a launch copywriter like myself, you know, it's about the funnel that people go through and the sales funnel and the decision making, progress process from awareness to consideration to ready to purchase. So structure and that user experience is also super important.
[00:29:19] Speaker D: Yeah, exactly.
[00:29:20] Speaker C: Right. Well, Linda, it's been a pleasure talking to you today. Do you have anything that you want to share? Now's your opportunity.
[00:29:28] Speaker D: Just that I have some freebies on my site and so you can get on there and see what I have. I do, I do website makeovers. Like overall, if it's not a custom job, if you just want me to take a look at your site and optimize it in some of the ways that we talked about, I do that. But there's a lot of free information on there that you can find and you reach out to me at Linda the copy works dot com.
[00:29:57] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:29:58] Speaker D: And I'm very active on LinkedIn.
[00:29:59] Speaker C: Yeah, brilliant. Okay, so we can find you as Linda Malone on LinkedIn.
[00:30:04] Speaker D: Yes. M E L O N A. It's always spelled.
[00:30:07] Speaker C: So I'll make sure those links are in the show notes. And just for the record, I don't think we've mentioned the name of your website.
[00:30:14] Speaker D: Oh, the Copyworks W O R X dot com.
[00:30:18] Speaker C: Yeah, Copyworks W O R X.
Brilliant. So check it out. You'll see firsthand the clear, concise, consistent copy that Linda has written. And I've looked at the site. Looks great. Sounds great. So thanks again, Linda.
[00:30:34] Speaker D: Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.
[00:30:43] Speaker A: You have been listening to the Cracking Copy podcast with ella Hoyos, Minnie McBride.
[00:30:48] Speaker B: Don't miss out on future episodes by making sure you hit subscribe down below to keep up with all our podcasts.
[00:30:55] Speaker A: And more details and resources are in our show notes.
[00:30:58] Speaker B: So we'll see you next time.
