Episode Transcript
[00:00:06] Speaker A: Cracking Copy is a marketing and copywriting podcast where we lift the lid on writing for business and read between the lines of effective copy.
[00:00:16] Speaker B: This is a podcast for creative entrepreneurs and savvy business owners like you who understand the value that great copy can bring to their bottom line.
[00:00:24] Speaker A: We dive into a different aspect of writing for business in each episode.
Debunk the myths about how we should write and explore the ways that writing can be fun, conversational and creative while also being high impact for serious results.
[00:00:41] Speaker B: So listen, laugh and learn with us, Ella hoyos and Minnie McBride as we share our words and wisdom in each snack sized episode.
Expect some light bulb moments, interesting guests and practical takeaways as we crack the copy code together.
[00:01:02] Speaker A: You may be one of the many business owners who think that AI generated content won't work for you. Perhaps you worry that it sounds robotic or inauthentic, among other things. In this episode we explore how to use a strong brand voice while leveraging AI for efficiency. Tune in to hear a case study on AI generated versus human written copy and find out what converts better.
[00:01:24] Speaker B: Hello and welcome back to Cracking Copy, the podcast where we explore in this episode how AI is changing the world of copywriting. I'm Ella.
[00:01:33] Speaker A: And I'm Minnie. And today we're tackling one of the biggest concerns business owners have about AI generated content. Is it authentic?
[00:01:40] Speaker B: AI can churn out content in seconds, as you know, but can it sound truly human? More importantly, can it capture your unique brand voice, your verbal identity, the way you sound? Today we're going to be breaking that down.
[00:01:53] Speaker A: Yeah. So let's start with the basics here. So what do we actually mean when we talk about authentic copy? So. So there are several things I kick off with. Emotional connection. So you're speaking directly to a customer's needs and pain points.
[00:02:10] Speaker B: Yep. How about unique brand voice? So how businesses stand out in a crowded market?
[00:02:15] Speaker A: Yep. And conversational tone, the difference between robotic AI content and engaging human writing?
[00:02:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So we, in this episode, we've tested it out, haven't we? We've put a prompt into ChatGPT and before we looked at the answer, we wrote our own. We used the same prompt to write our human version of the copy. Minis did it and I did it too. So we've got three versions. Do you want to. Do you want to explain?
[00:02:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Shall I tell you what I asked? ChatGPT. So this is a product description. So we wanted to keep it quite short because, you know, we thought you'd start turning off and snoozing so it's fairly short. So I asked Chat GPT the following. Hi, Chat, can you write me a short paragraph with a maximum of 100 words to describe a silk satin jersey fabric in a floral design that I'm selling on my website? My customer is a home sewer looking for high quality, beautiful fabrics to make their own gorgeous clothes at home. The introductory price is £30ameter.
[00:03:10] Speaker B: I just want to interject there, Minnie, and explained to the listener why we chose this as our prompt. But Minnie and I both are creative types. Minnie, you love upholstery. Me, I love dressmaking. So we found some common ground that we love to talk about is fabric and fabric.
Yay. So that's why we went with this one. So what did ChatGPT say as a result of your prompt?
[00:03:31] Speaker A: Okay, so in response, Chat said, indulge in the luxury of our silk satin jersey for 30 pounds a meter. A dream fabric for home sewers who love elegance and quality. This exquisite material drapes beautifully, combining the lustrous sheen of silk satin with the gentle stretch of jersey for ultimate comfort. Adorned with a stunning floral design, it's perfect for creating flowing dresses, elegant blouses, or chic loungewear. Soft, breathable, and effortlessly stylish, this fabric is a joy to sew and wear. Elevate your handmade wardrobe with a touch of sophistication. Because beautiful clothes start with beautiful fabric.
[00:04:07] Speaker B: They do. It's true. I agree with that, Chat. I agree that beautiful clothes start with beautiful fabric. On first glance, I think this sounds quite good.
Agree what I like about it, it's highlighted the benefits, the uses, makes the fabric sound great. But do you think it's a bit ott?
[00:04:24] Speaker A: I think so. I mean, for a product description. But even if it was talking about fabric, generally, it's a little bit flouncy. It's a bit flouncy. It's a bit flouncy. But, you know, and you know, I think it's. Yeah, it's a bit long. Maybe I should have said 50 words. I don't know. And it's a bit. I think for me, it's just a bit cliched.
[00:04:42] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, maybe. Yeah. There's a lot of adjectives in there as well to describe everything. Yeah, it's all right. You know, I think it's. It's still a pass. But let's have a look what we wrote. What did you. What did you write as?
[00:04:59] Speaker A: Yes, my cat here. It's my first draft. I mean, I literally tried to do it pretty quickly, so I put our new Floral silk satin jersey is a versatile, luxurious and comfortable fabric with its natural softness, stretchiness and breathability. It's suitable for a wide range of garments and has a light and sumptuous feel. Perfect for everyday wear as well as dressy tops and blouses. Its wonderful flowing drape also makes it an ideal choice for evening dresses and palazzo style trousers. This week only. Special introductory price of £30ameter.
[00:05:28] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah, I like it.
[00:05:29] Speaker A: Did you like it?
[00:05:30] Speaker B: Isn't it? It's shorter, sharper and more to the point.
[00:05:34] Speaker A: Yes. I also, if we're going back to authenticity, it's more authentically me. But then I suppose that's because I wrote it.
[00:05:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:41] Speaker A: But also I think I was putting quite a bit of thought into what I might make with it. So I was a bit. I was quite specific in terms of dressy blouses. I mean, I would call that a dressy blouse rather than, what did Chat call it? Elegant blouses.
[00:05:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:56] Speaker A: Which is okay, but it's just a bit, you know, dressy for me. Sounds better.
[00:06:00] Speaker B: Yeah, doesn't it? More conversational.
[00:06:03] Speaker A: And palazzo style trousers. I put that in because they're very fashionable at the moment. So I suppose actually could have added it by saying, yeah, I do believe.
[00:06:10] Speaker B: You'Re making some palazzo style trousers as well for your forthcoming trip to Monaco. Am I right?
[00:06:15] Speaker A: Yeah, I am, yeah.
[00:06:17] Speaker B: Influenced by that.
[00:06:19] Speaker A: They might be horrid and might not wear them, but yeah. Will I be influenced by the fabric? No, I'm. It's price for me. So.
[00:06:28] Speaker B: Shade your version, isn't it?
[00:06:30] Speaker A: I'd like to think so, Yes, I think so. So what about you give us your version?
[00:06:36] Speaker B: Okay, I'll give you my version and you'll have to do the jury's out on it. I thought, I'm just going to put it out there. I gave it a title as well because it is going to be under a picture if you imagine a product description on a website. So it'll just have a simple title. Silk sat jersey floral fabric. A medium weight soft silk jersey material with a moderate stretch. An elevated choice for occasion wear, dresses, lingerie and nightwear. This versatile dressmaking fabric is easy to handle and sew. It has a superb drape and hangs beautifully with a smooth, slinky appearance. The composition of 95% real mulberry silk makes it a joy to wear. This luxurious fabric feels soft against the skin and exudes quality with a subtle lustre and a matte satin sheen. The natural fibres have excellent thermal properties and breathability. Pair this floral design with any of our plain silk silk satin fabrics in the same range, we have a variety of six pastel shades specially selected to work together in any combination. 30 pounds per meter. Bestseller. 15 meters left in stock. Oh, and then a button add to basket, of course.
[00:07:34] Speaker A: Yeah, I didn't do a button.
[00:07:36] Speaker B: Yes, yes. I would have had a button into a sale here. So I believe that my version, it feels a bit plain vanilla in some ways, but it's authentic. It says what it does on the tin. I think, you know, I've tried to be really descriptive with it, but I also tried to write in some emotional triggers, you know, describing not only how the fabric looks and the cost and the quantity available, but, you know, how it feels against the skin. I think these sort of sensual qualities when you're buying fabric, the beauty of being a human buying fabric. You can touch it, you can feel it, you can pick it up. And I think we need to write in some of those sensual qualities and AI cannot replicate that. It could evoke how something looks based on the prompt you give it, the description or whatever. But can it really explain how something feels or if it's food, how it tastes or smells? You know, these are. These are human things, human senses. So probably with this draft, which is. Is just a draft, I would probably then feed this to ChatGPT and ask it for some suggestions and then perhaps use the suggestions to edit or enhance the flow of it a little bit. I think my sentences were quite short and choppy in a way.
[00:08:45] Speaker A: That's quite good, though I think it depends, doesn't it, what your style is? Because short and choppy can be quite useful.
[00:08:52] Speaker B: Yeah. For product description. You know.
[00:08:56] Speaker A: My thought with all of this, there's no. There's no wrong answer. Unless it's not true. It's just how it feels to you and how it. More importantly, it's going to resonate with your customer.
[00:09:06] Speaker B: Yeah. I didn't make too many assumptions about what people would make with this material, other than suggesting it is a dressmaking material and you can use it for. In a large array of nightwear. But I just thought I'd leave that to the customer. You know, it depends what they want to do with it, really. I also included a persuasion trigger like you did with the special offer. Persuasion trigger. Really, it was about scarcity. Just making that point that There is only 15 meters left in stock because, yeah, we're trying to drive the sale here. So I think ChatGPT missed out on any. On any.
[00:09:35] Speaker A: Yes, actually. Actually, that I think is actually the scarcity one is better than almost than my introductory price, really. Because I do think that if you think it's running out, and certainly when I'm looking at fabrics and I see that they've got however many, not very many meters left, it does prompt you, like, okay, well, if I want this, I've got to pull my finger out and. And order it, because you don't know.
[00:09:57] Speaker B: Who else is looking at the same thing. And also, I sort of went with, you know, like Coco Chanel. You don't see them discounting or having a sale. It's a luxury brand, It's a luxury product. So I didn't want to use any sort of discount. I wanted to use a scarcity thing that there's limited amount left because it then maintains the value of the product. It's not cheapening it in any way.
[00:10:20] Speaker A: So that's true. That is true. But yeah. So Liberty's hardly ever discount theirs, do they? You know, you pay what you pay unless you can get it from a dead stock website. But.
[00:10:30] Speaker B: Okay, there we go. There's our little experiment with AI not saying AI is completely useless, actually saying it's really helpful. But.
But you have to add your human input, I think, because there are some pitfalls with AI generated copy, aren't there?
[00:10:46] Speaker A: Yeah, I think so.
[00:10:47] Speaker B: Like, AI is fast, but it weaknesses when it comes to authenticity, like we've just discussed. Let's talk about what can possibly go wrong.
[00:10:55] Speaker A: Well, I think it can often sound quite sort of generic and dry, so I guess it would be lacking in some personality and warmth, which is.
Which is obviously what a human touch is.
[00:11:12] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, think.
[00:11:15] Speaker A: I mean, I think probably the aim ultimately with, with AI is to train it to pretend it's a human and can have these emotions. It'll be interesting to see. But for now, I would say that a pitfall is just to go, yeah, that sounds great, without thinking perhaps about whether it's going to resonate with your ideal customer.
[00:11:35] Speaker B: So some critical thinking needed. I also think that perhaps it will and it does struggle with humor. Humor is very personal, again, to the individual. What you find funny is different to what people might find funny. But AI certainly has got no idea, really. So I would say it struggles with humor also, things like sarcasm. You know, if you're a bit snarky in your brand voice and that's something that you. That is your sort of trademark or whatever. I don't think unless you really train it well on your brand voice, it's not going to replicate that.
[00:12:05] Speaker A: Sarcasm is A British thing too.
[00:12:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:08] Speaker A: I mean, to our American listeners, it is quite difficult as a Brit to be sarcastic.
[00:12:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I know. I. Yeah, I. I do know Americans who can be quite. Well, I think they. The word they would use is snarky, really. You know, just like having a jibe or whatever. But cultural nuances, they were different. They're different depending where you're from and where you grew up and your experiences and stuff. So that. That is unique to you, the human, the individual, I think.
[00:12:35] Speaker A: And the other thing is, is actually if your brand voice is. Can be tied to a location. So if, let's say that you're a very strong Yorkshire brand, you might want to inject that in. Your brand voice might be, you know, very slightly. And obviously, again, that's very regional. That's so regional.
I wonder whether, you know, ChatGPT, you know, Ebaigom, Bayar, whatever. But actually that's not, you know, that's the. That's not the nuance that you might be looking for.
[00:13:01] Speaker B: Yeah, but that regional dialect and even references to, you know, people drink a lot of tea. Good strong, dark brown tea.
[00:13:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:09] Speaker B: I mean, all right, that might be. I can't. What's the word for it? You know, a bit biased bit. What's that word when you associate someone with something?
[00:13:17] Speaker A: I've got a complete stupid mush brain.
[00:13:18] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know what you mean. All right, listener, write in and tell us what that was. Yeah, but it can go. I'm sure it can go over the top, but again, I do believe it's how you train your AI to some extent. So if you want. You have a brand voice that is very strong, then you need to let. I always say chat GPT, but you need to let your AI tool know about that and you'll get a more accurate response. You also had a go, didn't you, at writing in another brand voice? Writing the same product description, but in a style of.
[00:13:45] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I thought I'd find a company that had their sort of tone of voice guidelines online.
And actually I found Monzo and I know that they're a bank, but they have a lot of information on their website. They have a whole load of stuff about their brand tone of voice. And so I thought I would just. I basically copied and pasted put it into chat GPT. And I said, I. Right, now you've done this for me. Can you now rewrite it with these voice of, you know, voice of brand voice guidelines off Monzo of Monzo. So they've said, Right, ready? Sewing your own clothes. Nice choice. This silk satin Jersey in brackets, £30ameter, is soft, stretchy, and drapes beautifully. So your handmade pieces will look and feel amazing. The floral design, stunning. The finish, a little bit fancy, but in a good way. Whether you're making a dresser blouse or something totally unique, this fabric is here to make the process smoother. Even if your sewing machine has other ideas, treat yourself to something special. You're the one doing all the hard work, after all. I mean, it is quite. I mean, it's obviously latched onto the sort of warm humor that Monzo has.
I mean, it's actually quite engaging. But I'm just thinking, does that appeal to home sewers? I mean, I quite like what it's produced.
[00:15:00] Speaker B: Well, it shows you how different it can be because it does have a different feel to what we talked about before.
[00:15:06] Speaker A: There's a bit that's not very true when it says. Also. Yeah. About the truth, when it says the fabric is here to make the process smoother. Personally, I think silk's a nightmare, so I can't see how it's gonna make it smoother.
[00:15:20] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I did allude to that in mine. It's easy to handle and easy to sew. But again, you know, that depends on the skill of the sewer, really, doesn't it? And, yeah, so that's an assumption it's putting in there. The BS meter is. Yeah, the needle's moving on that one. It's like. But it's. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I don't think it sounds like a product description anymore, so it does sound more like probably how Monzo talk. And I'm not really that familiar with their brand voice, but, yeah, it's definitely got a different feel to it.
[00:15:47] Speaker A: Yeah. It's more like the sort of heading for a product section than the actual single product itself, isn't it? Yeah.
[00:15:54] Speaker B: Yeah. And I don't know if I would take it seriously. No. I'm looking for decent fabric for my project, and this one feels a bit flippant on some of the details. So it depends. If I was an amateur, sir, and I didn't know then maybe. But I'm a professional, so I'm looking for different information, which this doesn't really give me, about the weight, the drape, the how it hangs, that sort of thing, and that's what I want to know. Yeah.
[00:16:20] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I did try another. I mean, I tried loads of things. I also tried to do it in the style of the Great Gatsby we're not going to go into this now. And yeah, you can get it to do anything and it's quite fun, but it's not necessarily going to give you what you want and what you need.
[00:16:36] Speaker B: Yeah, but I think the pro. The point is you can experiment, you can do other stuff, you can make your copy sound very different if you want to. So you know, have a go input a generic AI prompt for yourself and then you know, write your own version. Play test the machine, humans versus the machine. See how, how you like it.
[00:16:54] Speaker A: Yeah. And then, and then work, work out what, what is wrong with it.
[00:16:59] Speaker B: Yeah. What don't you like the sound of? And actually if you don't like the sound of something, tell the AI tool. That's what I've started to do now. You know, negative prompt it. Not just say this is what I want, say this is what I don't want. This is what I don't like about this thing. Can you, you know, don't repeat it like this I want. So I think that helps.
And you can even use, you know, you can even create your own checklist of words that you do not want AI to come up with. So if you're noticing it's saying game changing in every single post that it writes for, tell it not to have your negative list, your definite no no list as well.
[00:17:33] Speaker A: Yeah, which, which you would have actually if you had your own brand voice guidelines, you would, you would absolutely have that do's and don'ts on that.
[00:17:41] Speaker B: Yeah. So Minnie, you and I create brand voice guidelines for our clients. You know, we can analyze writing and we need to do this for our work because when we write for our clients, we need to replicate their voice, make it sound like them. We all know what, you know, having a brand identity where you know about your colors, your logo and stuff, but having that verbal identity is really so that your readers, your customers and your audience recognize it as you. It sounds like you. So let's talk about how to keep your brand voice real whilst using AI.
[00:18:10] Speaker A: Yeah. So how we're talking about striking a balance really here, aren't we? So how do we use AI without losing that human touch?
[00:18:18] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I would say number one, AI use it for drafting. Drafting your idea and the humans for, you know that you use it to refine the copy. I might start the post first and ask it the AI tool for suggestions, but either way I refine the end output.
[00:18:34] Speaker A: Yeah. So it's not changing your style, it's more refining the sentences. So that might be it might be a better way around. I think the skill is to train your AI tools by feeding them, as you say, the right information, the do's, the don'ts.
And if you have got a whole brand, brand guidelines, tone of voice kits or you know that you can hat that you've got that you can put into ChatGPT, that'll help. I mean obviously you saw with Monzo it didn't actually necessarily have the best output and perhaps product descriptions isn't the best thing.
[00:19:05] Speaker B: No, but you've got to remember that was a bank writing for a sort of irreverent, you know, personality fueled bank. So we weren't taking an industry.
[00:19:14] Speaker A: No, we were taking two completely different industries. But it is quite interesting to see how it, it does it.
[00:19:19] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. So yeah. Any other ways to sort of keep your brand voice real?
[00:19:25] Speaker A: What is very important is human oversight. So any AI produced, any copy produced through artificial intelligence needs a skilled copywriter to edit and shape that message. Because it isn't just about word salad and what sounds good, it's also about taking the customer through steps. I hate to use the word journey, but you know what I mean, through a series of steps where, where at the end that they are going to buy. So a conversion copywriting and that. And that is a skill and that can't be necessarily replaced, I guess, unless you're feeding all of the that kind of information.
So don't forget human oversight.
[00:20:02] Speaker B: Okay, so an example, a real world example. In practice I'm actually learning how well I'm trying to combine AI and my human writing, my ela hoyos copywriting to create more high converting content to do it faster. So one of the tools I've learned how to create custom GPTs. I mentioned this in an early episode, but one of the tools I've created is called Sage Sound and she is my brand voice analyzer. Like I said earlier, we know brand voice is important to give you an identity, a verbal identity, how you sound. But we're, and we're often less clear than on that. We think about colors and fonts and typefaces first and how you sound comes later. And sometimes you don't think about that, you just write. But if you're writing some copy for your brand and you've got a team member writing copy for a brochure and you've got your web designer who's just said oh, I can do the copy for, you know, if you've got a mixture of voices then you are going to end up with like you put it a word salad where things don't sound quite right together and that the brand voice gets lost. It's just a combination of voices. So having a strict identity is helpful. Having those guidelines for your team and yourself, and even for yourself, your own clarity is helpful. So that's why I've created this custom GPT.
[00:21:17] Speaker A: You're so techy. It's so impressive.
[00:21:20] Speaker B: Well, you don't have to be techie anymore, do you? You just have to play with these tools and figure out how. Because it is no code. It's no code. It's just like I'm just giving it instructions. So I basically use my process that I do to analyze clients brand voices. So I'm looking for the tone of their writing. I'm looking for how long or short their sentences are. So the cadence of their writing. You know, how many sentences in a typical paragraph. So I get samples of writing from the client and I analyze it on these three things. Tone, cadence, and that diction, that word use, that choice of words and vocabulary that people use. So I've inputted these sort of metrics. This is what I want to measure the voice on into my custom GPT, which is called Sage sound. Sage meaning wisdom and sound. Obviously you know, what they hear when you write, you know that sort of sound also, as well as just, just the rhythm of your writing, the musicality, the vocabulary, the do's and don't words. I'm also asking my custom GPT, asking Sage to score on personality styles. So whether you know it or not, your writing will have a personality. And the chances are it's like your personality. And maybe you've never really thought about your personality in terms of how you write, but I've sort of got nine or ten, well, ten different personality types from like the rebel who contradicts things and who likes controversy and who likes not afraid of common conflict. Is that sort of rebel writing to your friend at the bar? You know, your friend that you go out for a drink with and you gossip with and you tell all the things to. Very conversational, quite loose, probably a bit sweary. So there's different types of personalities. And now Sage said I can, I can input writing samples and she will dissect that and tell me this is what it sounds like. And that is so helpful. So I can do it for my own writing and I do it for clients writing. And then once we've got that blueprint, that roadmap of here's how the brand sounds like Monzo have done with their Brand guidelines. Yeah. Then you can input more content and ask it to write in this style or ask it to check it and cross reference it, make sure that it does sound on brand.
[00:23:27] Speaker A: But the other thing is, is I guess once you've analyzed it, you can then send it to the client saying this is this. I've, you know, I've analyzed your work, you know, with the help of AI, but obviously looking at it as well myself.
And is this correct?
[00:23:41] Speaker B: Because.
[00:23:43] Speaker A: And they might say, well it isn't. And you can say well that. But that's how you're writing.
[00:23:46] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And also then if you are trying to transition to sound like something different. So I have this person that I'm working with and she, she worries that her copy is too bland and not enough personality for her to represent her brand. So we're working on switching it up to making it sound more playful, to making it sound more playful without being silly and, but with just a sort of nod, so gentle nod to playfulness within that copy. And making that transition is much easier when you've got this sort of guidelines. Here's where I am now, here's where I want to be. And then you can figure out how to gently switch things up so that it, it happens in a, a natural way rather than a forced way. Then all of a sudden you wake up one morning and you know, your HSB bank sounds like ebay marketplace or something like that. Crazy.
[00:24:38] Speaker A: Yes. I think that sounds brilliant. I mean you could make these, I think we talked, didn't we, about your own GPTs for other things. I mean, I think in terms of research, it would just be amazing if you imagine all of your customer interviews that you've done and you just put that into a GPT that you've made that can pull out voice of customer and pull out the data. I mean that would just be amazing.
[00:24:59] Speaker B: Yeah. Quick note, I think on chat GPT, if you use open AI, they are called custom GPTs. These sort of little custom built GPT, generative, pre trained, whatever stands for. If you use Google Gemini, their version is called Gems and Microsoft Copilot. I can't remember what they're called, like pilots or something.
Each AI software tool will have its own name for this kind of thing, but whichever one you use, you should be able to customize it for your own needs.
[00:25:29] Speaker A: It's that in that, that's in the paid version, isn't it?
[00:25:32] Speaker B: Yes, you have to be using the paid version. Yeah. But what we're saying to our clients now is you Know what I'm saying to my clients is you don't need to do this. You don't need to worry about it, don't sweat on it, don't think you have to learn a whole new system. You know, I got this built into my process. So this is me, a copywriter, getting up with current, you know, ways to do things. I'll build it into my process for you. So all you have to do is hire me and I will give you this stuff.
And yeah, you get the best of both worlds. You get the best of AI, but also the peace of mind knowing that there's a real, professionally trained copywriter behind this who knows the strategy, who knows the ins and outs, and can give you best results, optimum output.
[00:26:15] Speaker A: So in conclusion then, we think AI is a great tool but not a replacement.
[00:26:20] Speaker B: Of course, here's the key takeaway AI, it can assist with copy, but it does take a skilled human to make it really authentic.
[00:26:27] Speaker A: Yeah. So if you want your brand to connect with customers in a real way, you need a copywriter who knows how to use AI, not just rely on it completely. We would say if you're working on a big project, the launch, you know, by using some AI, that's great, get you going or to, but you really, really, you need an expert to use the tools effectively but also to give you that authentic voice and make your copy convert.
[00:26:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
So our details are in the show notes. If you want to talk more with us about this on a one to one or, or drop us a line about how you felt on the podcast, we'd love to hear from you.
[00:27:04] Speaker A: Lovely. And we'll see you next time.
[00:27:06] Speaker B: Thanks.
You have been listening to the Cracking Copy podcast with Ella Hoyoth and Minnie McBride.
[00:27:13] Speaker A: Don't miss out on future episodes by making sure you hit subscribe down below to keep up with all our podcasts and more details.
[00:27:21] Speaker B: Details and resources are in our show notes.
[00:27:23] Speaker A: So we'll see you next time.
